I'm intrigued by the comparisons between beer and wine... As someone who knows nothing about beer, I think I could use this the other way around: "you like a buttery Chardonnay? You might like this blonde beer!" Etc 😂
That's a cool idea, it would definitely get me to drink more beer! Taking it a step further than just drawing the connection between beer and wine, it could be done as a pairing event of some kind. That way it would draw in people who typically only drink one or the other and get them all jazzed about something new. 🤔
The problem is young people not into wine are not really drinking craft beers either, at least not in my circle. They are drinking dark spirits and cola, that taste nothing like wine. There is no easy crossover.
Yeah that's tricky. Probably the closest thing I can imagine would be like a Tawny Port which can have cola notes and obviously some sweetness, plus it's higher abv to stand in for the "dark spirits." Maybe not as much of a porch pounder as a classic rum and coke, but could bridge the gap. I've definitely also gotten "cola notes" from some dry wines, like Pinot Noir, Syrah, Monatrell... and maybe there's some really hot climate reds that can help split the difference on abv -- you could try steering them towards some high abv southern Rhone blends or go a little more local and see how some Barossa Shiraz goes for them (assuming they haven't already given it a shot). I guess ultimately the question is whether their motivation is just to raise their blood alcohol level as quickly and painlessly as possible, or if they have an interest in enjoying the process and they think dark spirits and cola are as delicious as it gets. If it's the latter, there's hope! 😂
I like where you’re going with this tawny port idea, and I’ll throw a few additional suggestions in here just based on vibe.
The bourbon drinker probably wants something smooth, full of flavor, and maybe higher ABV. I’d suggest a solid GSM blend or a Spanish Garnacha.
Scotch drinkers (especially Islay Scotch fiends) need campfires and cozy vibes! I am basically throwing Rhône Valley Syrah at them - either a Southern Rhône big boi blend or a St. Joseph to start, but working towards some entry level Left Bank Bordeaux and Ribera del Duero.
Cola drinkers live for the bubbles, so a pét-nat with tons of bubs and a good dose of attitude would be intriguing. Also, there are some really solid Lambruscos starting to come into the U.S. now, which means a Grasparossa/pepperoni pizza night could be revelatory.
The cool thing about the crossover to wine is that as long as the drinker is open to trying something new, curiosity and enthusiasm do half the work! Just getting the courage to drink beyond preconceived notions is half the battle.
Awesome, fellas - keep pimping that Value wine! This year I'm planning to do the same with the second season of my wine and entertainment pairing podcast, where we always suggest a "budget" version of something to drink even if we also have a "premium" version as well. There's also a podcast "Wine Pair" that sticks to bottles $25 and under only, so I'm glad that pov is getting out there, and more wine voices are focusing on that.
On the subject of label clarity, I did want to point out that it goes beyond just ingredients, but also the confusing regulations surrounding wine. The most avoidable is "declassification" where one red wine from a specific region is named after that region and another is just a "Vin de france" because it's the "wrong" grape, etc. Things like that make labels ultra hair-pulling confusing, for no good reason. Make a regulation that you have to put the grape variety on thee front label in large font if it's the "wrong" grape, but saying you now can't tell people where it's from is absurd. Same with not being able to name the grape when it "doesn't taste varietally correct." And that's just a sampling of the many regulations that aren't servicing consumers, but only traditional wine makers and/or regualtory bodies.
Definitely. I do understand the rationale behind the appellation and classification systems that tend to offer information about quality and origin, and help manage expectations of a style. Still, there's absolutely no benefit to the consumer to be deprived of information about what is in the bottle. Thankfully I think even in Old World countries, these things are *slowly* becoming more antiquated as innovation and pressure from younger winemakers who want more freedom enter the equation. Pushing for updated regulations globally would undoubtedly only help to revitalize the industry.
Someone recently wrote about a vineyard...I think in the Rhone? (And I can't recall which wine substackeer wrote this, dangit.) Where one single plot was best suited to Chardonnay, and not the typical Rhone varieties. So they had to go through a laborious and expensive declassification process (yes, that one parcel of a vineyard has to be actively "declassified" which apparently costs a ton of money) just so they could grow what actually grew best there and they can't even say what it is or where it's from. It's ABSURD.
Yeah that's ridiculous. And of course those regulations are going to majorly deter any smaller scale producers that can't afford to pay the fees. Those types of regulations and who is benefiting from them might be an interesting future deep dive topic.
As Vicky has commented - the beer idea is clever...specifically for winelovers who don't know much about beer (me!) and need help navigating the different styles.
I also fully agree with you that the wine industry would be doing itself a favour if the rubbish was removed from supermarket shelves. I love that I'm from a 'new world' region where there are very few rules...sometimes I think we should adopt the tasting panel model who must approve the quality of the wine before it is allowed to be bottled and sold as SA wine. But, truth be told, it'd be better if supermarkets were the ones holding producers to a higher standard. Doesn't have to be more expensive...just of a quality that experienced tasters will accept.
Fun fact that I wish wasn't true: I've watched many friends with very healthy incomes refuse to pay more for a better quality wine. They agree that it tastes better and different but they will not change their buying habits. From uber wealthy mothers, to young child free singles with more income than they know what to do with, to people my age who just won't budge from the cheapest wine. My feeling is that they have little interest in anything beyond drinking the wine....not getting drunk, just being happy with what is in their glass. And...hot take: I don't think these types of people should be the wine industry's target...they know what they want and they won't change...and supermarkets are forced to cater to this.
There's a very specific type of person who is naturally curious and/or concerned about status and how they are perceived (sometimes in a pretentious way, but also in a traditional/etiquette-y/discover the classics/worldly education sort of way)...I find that these are the people who convert and often become bonefied wine appreciators who are invested in learning more, sharing more, exploring more. And that same interest isn't limited to wine - which is what makes them fun and engaging company....over a bottle of wine 😉.
Everyone should welcome...but maybe the solution is to grow more curious polymaths/polyhistors...kinda like the way many of our parents are pretty well rounded individuals with fairly substantial worldly knowledge across a range of subjects.
That category of wealthier person who has no interest in drinking better wine is definitely interesting, especially if they are familiar with it. You're right though, those people who have the means and the experience but lack the interest are probably a wasted effort because at that point it's pretty clearly a matter of taste. I think if the ultimate goal is to trawl the sea of potential wine-drinkers for the biggest number of "converts" if you will, the greatest untapped audience would be people who have the means to at least occasionally buy wine, but very little experience or exposure to good quality bottles and thus have never felt that it was a reasonable way to spend their money. Then, as you said, the curious sort is probably the easiest to convince to catch the bug. Personally, I don't really care if people don't drink something they don't enjoy, but as many of the writers and readers here are acutely aware, there can be so much joy to wine that goes beyond simply how it tastes, so it's a shame to think of how many people might be missing out on that!
I'm intrigued by the comparisons between beer and wine... As someone who knows nothing about beer, I think I could use this the other way around: "you like a buttery Chardonnay? You might like this blonde beer!" Etc 😂
That's a cool idea, it would definitely get me to drink more beer! Taking it a step further than just drawing the connection between beer and wine, it could be done as a pairing event of some kind. That way it would draw in people who typically only drink one or the other and get them all jazzed about something new. 🤔
Yes, I like your thinking! Reach the new wine people and the new beer people in one fell swoop!
The problem is young people not into wine are not really drinking craft beers either, at least not in my circle. They are drinking dark spirits and cola, that taste nothing like wine. There is no easy crossover.
Yeah that's tricky. Probably the closest thing I can imagine would be like a Tawny Port which can have cola notes and obviously some sweetness, plus it's higher abv to stand in for the "dark spirits." Maybe not as much of a porch pounder as a classic rum and coke, but could bridge the gap. I've definitely also gotten "cola notes" from some dry wines, like Pinot Noir, Syrah, Monatrell... and maybe there's some really hot climate reds that can help split the difference on abv -- you could try steering them towards some high abv southern Rhone blends or go a little more local and see how some Barossa Shiraz goes for them (assuming they haven't already given it a shot). I guess ultimately the question is whether their motivation is just to raise their blood alcohol level as quickly and painlessly as possible, or if they have an interest in enjoying the process and they think dark spirits and cola are as delicious as it gets. If it's the latter, there's hope! 😂
I like where you’re going with this tawny port idea, and I’ll throw a few additional suggestions in here just based on vibe.
The bourbon drinker probably wants something smooth, full of flavor, and maybe higher ABV. I’d suggest a solid GSM blend or a Spanish Garnacha.
Scotch drinkers (especially Islay Scotch fiends) need campfires and cozy vibes! I am basically throwing Rhône Valley Syrah at them - either a Southern Rhône big boi blend or a St. Joseph to start, but working towards some entry level Left Bank Bordeaux and Ribera del Duero.
Cola drinkers live for the bubbles, so a pét-nat with tons of bubs and a good dose of attitude would be intriguing. Also, there are some really solid Lambruscos starting to come into the U.S. now, which means a Grasparossa/pepperoni pizza night could be revelatory.
The cool thing about the crossover to wine is that as long as the drinker is open to trying something new, curiosity and enthusiasm do half the work! Just getting the courage to drink beyond preconceived notions is half the battle.
Awesome, fellas - keep pimping that Value wine! This year I'm planning to do the same with the second season of my wine and entertainment pairing podcast, where we always suggest a "budget" version of something to drink even if we also have a "premium" version as well. There's also a podcast "Wine Pair" that sticks to bottles $25 and under only, so I'm glad that pov is getting out there, and more wine voices are focusing on that.
On the subject of label clarity, I did want to point out that it goes beyond just ingredients, but also the confusing regulations surrounding wine. The most avoidable is "declassification" where one red wine from a specific region is named after that region and another is just a "Vin de france" because it's the "wrong" grape, etc. Things like that make labels ultra hair-pulling confusing, for no good reason. Make a regulation that you have to put the grape variety on thee front label in large font if it's the "wrong" grape, but saying you now can't tell people where it's from is absurd. Same with not being able to name the grape when it "doesn't taste varietally correct." And that's just a sampling of the many regulations that aren't servicing consumers, but only traditional wine makers and/or regualtory bodies.
Definitely. I do understand the rationale behind the appellation and classification systems that tend to offer information about quality and origin, and help manage expectations of a style. Still, there's absolutely no benefit to the consumer to be deprived of information about what is in the bottle. Thankfully I think even in Old World countries, these things are *slowly* becoming more antiquated as innovation and pressure from younger winemakers who want more freedom enter the equation. Pushing for updated regulations globally would undoubtedly only help to revitalize the industry.
Someone recently wrote about a vineyard...I think in the Rhone? (And I can't recall which wine substackeer wrote this, dangit.) Where one single plot was best suited to Chardonnay, and not the typical Rhone varieties. So they had to go through a laborious and expensive declassification process (yes, that one parcel of a vineyard has to be actively "declassified" which apparently costs a ton of money) just so they could grow what actually grew best there and they can't even say what it is or where it's from. It's ABSURD.
Yeah that's ridiculous. And of course those regulations are going to majorly deter any smaller scale producers that can't afford to pay the fees. Those types of regulations and who is benefiting from them might be an interesting future deep dive topic.
As Vicky has commented - the beer idea is clever...specifically for winelovers who don't know much about beer (me!) and need help navigating the different styles.
I also fully agree with you that the wine industry would be doing itself a favour if the rubbish was removed from supermarket shelves. I love that I'm from a 'new world' region where there are very few rules...sometimes I think we should adopt the tasting panel model who must approve the quality of the wine before it is allowed to be bottled and sold as SA wine. But, truth be told, it'd be better if supermarkets were the ones holding producers to a higher standard. Doesn't have to be more expensive...just of a quality that experienced tasters will accept.
Fun fact that I wish wasn't true: I've watched many friends with very healthy incomes refuse to pay more for a better quality wine. They agree that it tastes better and different but they will not change their buying habits. From uber wealthy mothers, to young child free singles with more income than they know what to do with, to people my age who just won't budge from the cheapest wine. My feeling is that they have little interest in anything beyond drinking the wine....not getting drunk, just being happy with what is in their glass. And...hot take: I don't think these types of people should be the wine industry's target...they know what they want and they won't change...and supermarkets are forced to cater to this.
There's a very specific type of person who is naturally curious and/or concerned about status and how they are perceived (sometimes in a pretentious way, but also in a traditional/etiquette-y/discover the classics/worldly education sort of way)...I find that these are the people who convert and often become bonefied wine appreciators who are invested in learning more, sharing more, exploring more. And that same interest isn't limited to wine - which is what makes them fun and engaging company....over a bottle of wine 😉.
Everyone should welcome...but maybe the solution is to grow more curious polymaths/polyhistors...kinda like the way many of our parents are pretty well rounded individuals with fairly substantial worldly knowledge across a range of subjects.
That category of wealthier person who has no interest in drinking better wine is definitely interesting, especially if they are familiar with it. You're right though, those people who have the means and the experience but lack the interest are probably a wasted effort because at that point it's pretty clearly a matter of taste. I think if the ultimate goal is to trawl the sea of potential wine-drinkers for the biggest number of "converts" if you will, the greatest untapped audience would be people who have the means to at least occasionally buy wine, but very little experience or exposure to good quality bottles and thus have never felt that it was a reasonable way to spend their money. Then, as you said, the curious sort is probably the easiest to convince to catch the bug. Personally, I don't really care if people don't drink something they don't enjoy, but as many of the writers and readers here are acutely aware, there can be so much joy to wine that goes beyond simply how it tastes, so it's a shame to think of how many people might be missing out on that!
Oh geez...did I really type half an essay. Sorry! Feel free to ignore this!!! Life's too short to read my writing.